SpielByWeb

[yahkeh]

are statistics and rankings really THAT overrated that experienced players can't fight the urge to join games where the other players are clearly not in the same league in order to jack up their already impressive records??? case in point: games like #52522 which the creator aptly named A/R for new players and in the comment section added that he never played before - still dilsonfilho couldn't help himself but join despite the experience of 258 games?????? or # 53580 that flaviorj HAD to join (1375 completed A/R where nobody else even came close to 20!!!!!) ..I don't mean to discriminate these two players who most certainly just represent the tip of the iceberg and have to serve as examples here, but should we not make it a matter of honour NOT to go for the quick win but rather leave the newbies to comprehend the game mechanics amongst themselves without being clobbered with every "weak" move they make????? Jake Kneiert

[yahkeh]

i have to admit to bring some general boardgming experience to the virtual table given my recent history and experience with E&T on BGG and some 3 decades of face-to-face boardgaming - but I find it far more enjoyable to learn the mechanics and mistakes of and in a game with people of the same experience level - or with players who can forget about their paramount desire to finish EVERY game victoriously and rather tutor a newbie and help him to a pleasant experience in a new boardgame - as recently experienced in my game of reef encounter with radaliendad and mooka - thanks guys, hats off to you...

[flaviorj]

Dude I don't like to get in this kind of controversy here, but I NEVER join a game where the creator asks for begginers or newbies ONLY, but if the game is free or no restritions are posted I'll feel free to joinANY game, if you don't like that I can give you a couple of directions:

1st) on comments add: "flaviorj" please don't join or players with over 100 games please don't join, or players with an average winning ratio of 30% don't join, so people will be able to follow your guidelines.

2nd) create passworded games and invite whoever you want to join them

I play because I like and I like to play a lot, I play because I have fun, I don't care about stats or winning.
Other than that, a game with an inexperienced player is not a guarantee of winning, because some times they do mistakes or plays that are not expeted and hurt/block someones game, and it happened to me several times, and I never inquire those players about that, in a game those things might happen.

But don't worry about that since I´ve already left the mentioned game, and alo be aware that you could request that by PM instead of blabbering nonsense.

FYI, in the future if there are NO comment about player level restrictions I'll be joining them

[yahkeh]

once again: I didn't mean to attack or insult you personally but I've seen the above mentioned trend on BGG way too often; unfortunately passworded games are not an option when someone is new to the site and doesn't know other players - I would also never bother someone to leave a game (they might end up being wonderful tutors) - and yes, please feel free to join ANY game you like, this thread was just meant to make players aware.....(might already have been discussed ad nauseam in the past - I wouldn't know :I AM NEW TO THIS SITE!!!!)

BUT I DO RESPECT YOUR DECISION TO LEAVE THE GAME IN QUESTION MORE THAN WORDS CAN EXPRESS

[Knave]

I learnt very rapidly on this site that most of the players completely ignore any comment text that is added to the creation of non-passworded games.

At first I thought it was a simple misunderstanding. For example, I used to use terms like "2 turns per day" or "beginner". Then people started saying that since they had an average turn time of 12 hours per turn, then they would be moving twice a day. (Ludicrous of course, a 5 player games needs everyone to have an average time of 2.4 hours to move twice per day, but that is another discussion). Similarly, the word "beginner" can be ambiguous, since there are some people who have 20-50 games under their belt that consider themselves to be "beginners". It is true, I can give current specific game examples if you don't believe me.

So, in the interest of clarity, I began to get specific. I asked for people with average turn times less than 4 hours who had less than 10 completed games. As a general rule, out of the 4 other players who would join, at least 2 of them wouldn't even be close to the guidelines.

I tried PMing some of them, and while some would leave those games, some would actually tell me that they had the right to join any game they damn well pleased. (Beast in particular was egregiously non apologetic for being neither a newbie nor fast in a fast/newbie game that I started). I have tried to start about 10 fast and/or newbie games, and I have been successful just once. I would like to think that people are just not seeing the comments, but when the game name says that you should have an average time less than 4 hours, and people join with double that time, it makes me think that they are mostly just selfish.

Interestingly, I find that "Reef Encounter" games have people that are both faster and more polite. "Amun Re" players seem to be the worst of the bunch, both in terms of being slow and in terms of experienced people coming in for some newbie bashing.

So, yahkeh, you are probably stuck with getting unwanted people in your games. You can state as clearly as you want in the comments that you do not want experienced people in your games, but those people will join anyway, and there is nothing that you will be able to do about it.

[yahkeh]

funny thing is that I started neither of those games but rather wanted to bring up this topic since it clearly moved me away from two other game sites where people were pretty obnoxious about their quest for statistics.....

[stargate]

I will be blunt

this is a friendly site and it's biggest problem is

STUPID NEWBIES

like yahkeh and knave
one of you has 9 completed games the other 17 completed games

instead of enjoying playing games you are bitching about people you
don't know and complaing about things you know nothing about

lets take the average time per turn
I have 84456 turns in 45 months, 1876 turns per month, 62 turns per
24 hour day ---- my average is 1.6 hours not 23 minutes
for the record you only have to worry about people with an average over 20 hours
if you want real time play go to BSW

the rankings list ----- it's only stats, some people play better than others
looking at the top 100 people (100 games) almost everyone of them is
a good person and they are not driven by their stats
the SLOW and STAT driven users on the list are not playing here anymore

the second biggest problem here is >>>
the lack of a REDO feature in Amun-Re

[yahkeh]

yes, newbies are stupid, and yes, this is predominantly a friendly site (as I can attest playing in a game with docaction where he was so nice as to point out mechanics of a certain power card - even though it is a tournament game!!!!) but no, you did not understand my intention : I am not bitching about people: I just thought to see the trend (statistics) that made play an unpleasant experience on some other website and in one face-to-face boardgaming group; au contraire I pride myself of (re-)introducing people to boardgaming and helping this procedure by not focussing on the personal satisfaction of yet another game won but by emphasizing the pleasant boardgaming experience for everyone and the fun this pastime brings along; so sorry stargate, but you totally mis-read me.....

[t_o_m9]

people join games because they like to play games. I haven't seen anyone join to just pad stats. And if you are going to learn the basics its better to learn from a master than the learner.

[flaviorj]

[Knave]

[smlait]

You'll want to be careful judging people on their average turn times. Some of us have schedules that vary widely at different times of year. I, for one, teach - which means that some months, I can check in more than a dozen times a day and other months, twice a day would be doing well. My average turn time is sitting somewhere around 4.5 hours but if someone posts a "2 hr turnaround" game during one of my check-in-lots months, I'm going to consider myself to qualify.

So, if someone who looks slow joins one of your games, a quick PM along the lines of "you realise this is a fast game?" will probably get you further than "get out, you slowpoke!"

[magnusgb]

I like fast games. And when I create games I usually ask for fast games. Often because I have some hours at work where there is little to do. If I'm lucky someone in the same situation joins my 2 player hacienda game, and we're done in less than 3 hours. Other times I get to do a couple of turns a day.

People just interpret 'fast' differently. And a 2 player that finishes in 3-4 days still is pretty fast, statistically speaking. It's a bit dissapointing when what I'm really hoping for is a 3 hour game. I've tried being very specific, like "fast during office hours in Europe". But then nobody joins.

But, at least to me, slow game is better than no game.

[Rebelslayer]

I have had no end of problems on BSW with players leaving long games (like caylus) near the end when they realise they can't win, and no end of nice experiences on SBW with nice players.

The last time I looked at my stats was about 6 months ago when someone wanted a game with Amun-Re stats of >50% win and I looked to see if I qualified.

I have looked at other peoples stats at the start of Hacienda 2p/3p tourney games and got a rude shock during the games often when a player with average or terrible stats plays a great game under certain circumstances ... t_o_m9 is routinely the hardest player I play ... which doesn't fit his stats (I'd rather meet Kanga ... although I'm sure our great tournament director can now organise for me to meet a lot more of Tom to save him needing to knock me out of a tourney).

Sometimes people rush on joining a game (I often rush turns and afterwards look and wonder what I was thinking, even several tournament games have been joined by those not listed when the creator inadvertently sets it up without a password).

In my experience of teaching games I find that I LOSE the vast majority as I'm too busy teaching to play well. So try getting someone who seems better or more experienced to teach you if they join and you will get to know people as well as the game.

Unfortunately posting questions about a players integrity doesn't get you very far, noone likes to have their integrity questioned, and the safety of typing a reply without any face to face contact garuntees you will be blasted!

There are a few glory/stat sharks on this site (by the time you have played 50 games you will know who they are). I'm sure they get bored with it. Most just enjoy a game and hopefully you will settle down and do the same!

[Dobinator]

Yes, I can verify that being on the receiving end of personal attacks makes one feel pretty crummy.