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JeffyJeff
Joined: 27 Oct 05 Posts: 85
Location: Longwood, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:22 pm Post subject: Suggestion: Auto-complete when no choice for player |
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I noticed several times I've been told it's my turn, and it is, but when I get there, my only choice is "click here to receive your income"...
It would be nice if the game coud skip that if there is no choice and just hand out the income (maybe sending out an email telling me what it's done, but not that it's my turn). That should speed up play a little. I think Wallenstein does something similiar in most cases where the action has no user interaction needed.
Jeff |
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jbluestein
Joined: 05 Mar 04 Posts: 28
Location: Westford, MA
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Doing this gives information to other players, though. It tells them that you have no power cards that could influence your income, not necessarily something you want them to know. I realize this slows things down somewhat, but IMO it's an acceptable slowdown. |
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JeffyJeff
Joined: 27 Oct 05 Posts: 85
Location: Longwood, FL
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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good point, unless it did the auto-complete after a random amount of time, and not during sleeping hours, if the player hasn't manually completed the turn (and had no options)... though that would be a lot more work to implement, and would fill a very small niche that probably not worth the effort |
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Montu
Joined: 14 Nov 05 Posts: 36
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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jbluestein wrote: | Doing this gives information to other players, though. It tells them that you have no power cards that could influence your income, not necessarily something you want them to know. I realize this slows things down somewhat, but IMO it's an acceptable slowdown. |
Players here at SBW already know your exact gold total, which is far more useful information than whether or not you have useful income cards. I'm for auto-completing when there's no choice. These games take long enough as it is. |
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qzhdad
Joined: 31 Aug 05 Posts: 16
Location: Clarkston, MI USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:32 am Post subject: support both ways? |
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Maybe when setting up the game, the creator could select the autoselect option. People that were worried about giving away info could avoid those games. Realistically, this information isn't overly useful to one's opponents. And how often will one not play a power card for 3 points? (And it's not often that I hold an income enhancing card for an extra round.) |
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Abbacus
Joined: 01 Sep 04 Posts: 11
Location: Oslo, Norway
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: Re: support both ways? |
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qzhdad wrote: | And how often will one not play a power card for 3 points? (And it's not often that I hold an income enhancing card for an extra round.) |
When you have the 8 gold card, you will often want to save it, say, to the third round. I think the slow-down is acceptable in order to keep this information hidden. |
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JeffyJeff
Joined: 27 Oct 05 Posts: 85
Location: Longwood, FL
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: Re: support both ways? |
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Abbacus wrote: | qzhdad wrote: | And how often will one not play a power card for 3 points? (And it's not often that I hold an income enhancing card for an extra round.) |
When you have the 8 gold card, you will often want to save it, say, to the third round. I think the slow-down is acceptable in order to keep this information hidden. |
In your example about having an 8 gold card... as has been suggested, how useful is the info that you do "not" have an 8 gold card to the other players? Will it influence any of the other players in their play?
In any case, the suggestion to have it be an option to auto-complete when the game is created would keep everyone happy. I'd even suggest that the default be auto-complete, and the option needs to be selected to disable that feature....
Jeff |
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Montu
Joined: 14 Nov 05 Posts: 36
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Jeff is right. Since green cards are played after the sacrifice, they cannot possibly affect that. And since the likelihood is extremely high that you will buy more cards before the next sacrifice, knowing someone had no green cards last round does not tell you that they have none this round (unless they do not acquire more cards, which is rare).
Someone please give me a practical example of when knowing that another player has no green or scoring power card could be strategically useful. |
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Mabi
Joined: 13 May 04 Posts: 36
Location: Italy
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:44 am Post subject: |
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I agree that this kind of information would be negligible, so I support the proposal of auto-completion when you don't have any cards to play. But not in the other case: I don't want the system automatically playing the cards for me, at least not the income cards (it's not uncommon to save up one for a later turn). About the bonus scoring cards, I can't imagine a situation where I wouldn't play them. |
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JimF
Joined: 02 Jun 05 Posts: 39
Location: Banstead, Surrey
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Mabi wrote: | About the bonus scoring cards, I can't imagine a situation where I wouldn't play them. |
Very very rarely you could have a case where the 1 gold for the card could be worth more to you than the 3VP. For example,at the end of the game you could have the person with most gold having 1 more than you and your closest rival. As it stands you and your rival would be getting 4VP each for Gold at then end of the game, but if you traded in your bonus scoring card fro 1 gold you would now receive 6VP and your rival 2VP for Gold. This is a 4VP swing compared to a 3VP swing of taking the bonus on the card!
I agree with the income power cards. There are several times where I do not use them at the first available opportunity. |
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bwtcf
Joined: 30 Oct 05 Posts: 10
Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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JeffyJeff wrote: | good point, unless it did the auto-complete after a random amount of time, and not during sleeping hours |
And 'sleeping hours' would be when, exactly?
I assume you'd want that to be configured by player, so that poeple like me in New Zealand could say that my 'night time' was GMT +13 hours? And people in Europe could say they were in Europe... Or would we all run on Eastern Standard time (and I don;t mean Australian Eastern Standard Time either)
But then what about people who work nights and sleep during the day???
The BC Police. _________________ Tichu is not a game of speed, it is an art. |
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Abbacus
Joined: 01 Sep 04 Posts: 11
Location: Oslo, Norway
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:24 am Post subject: Re: support both ways? |
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JeffyJeff wrote: |
In your example about having an 8 gold card... as has been suggested, how useful is the info that you do "not" have an 8 gold card to the other players? Will it influence any of the other players in their play?
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Let say you have only one bonus card, namely the "8 gold" card. The game stops in the second round to grant you an option to play it. If you choose not to, the other players will know in the next round that you had either "8 gold" or "Harvest Increase", since the game stopped. This may help them, because they know that you don't have "overbid in the same province" or any of the bonus cards.
Having the option of auto-completion when the game is created would of course be nice, but perhaps much work to implement.
When it comes to the 3 point bonus cards, I agree that auto-play would be an advantage here, since you very rarely would not want to play them (still, JimF does have a valid yet improbable example). |
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Golux13
Joined: 14 Jul 05 Posts: 209
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:39 am Post subject: |
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This sounds like an awful lot of fuss over what is, in the end, a very minor inconvenience. Having to click even when you have no options is not so horrible that I would want Mikael to devote significant time or effort to "fixing," not when there are so many other things I would like to see -- new games, new features to enhance playability (e.g., the colorblindness issue discussed in another thread), bug fixes (when necessary), etc. |
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JeffyJeff
Joined: 27 Oct 05 Posts: 85
Location: Longwood, FL
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Golux13 wrote: | This sounds like an awful lot of fuss over what is, in the end, a very minor inconvenience. Having to click even when you have no options is not so horrible ... |
I think you missed the point... it's not an inconvenience for the person who has no options but to click "ok"... it's for the other players, and the amount of time it adds to the game. My "guess" is that it probably adds at least a day, possibly two (or more?) where the game is simply waiting for someone who has no options but to click "ok".
Your point about priorities (new games, bug fixes, and other new feature suggestions) is a separate issue, while valid, shouldn't stop discussion. |
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Golux13
Joined: 14 Jul 05 Posts: 209
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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You're right, the delay for other players is another inconvenience. Again, I think it's a minor incremental delay, given the general pace of play. If someone is a bottleneck, then whether you are in Scoring or Harvest & Collect Income is not going to make a big difference. Whether you're waiting for the player ahead of you to "click here to receive your income" or to make some substantive decision and act on it, you're going to wait. I would guess that an auto-complete function would shorten a one-move-per-day game of Amun-Re by half a day, maybe one day at best.
For the record, I say all this as someone who checks in several times a day in the (usually vain) hope that one or more of my games will have advanced. |
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