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Kanga
Joined: 27 Oct 05 Posts: 1503
Location: Moe, Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: Bug in tournament game |
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http://www.spielbyweb.com/game.php?games_id=33838
On the last action, Dobinator built a canal in spot 29, costing him 7 gold. He didn't have 7 gold - and reports that he had no intention of building there anyway, was just trying to see if it would work. It, as he points out, is not even close to his best move.
And of course just be make it more annoying, the move changes the result of the game.
So, is it possible for admin to reset the last move? |
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Dobinator
Joined: 18 Jul 07 Posts: 383
Location: North Carolina, USA
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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What Kanga says is true - see the messages on the game for a recap of my stupidity. |
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Gaditus
Joined: 05 Feb 07 Posts: 1924
Location: Canterbury, UK
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Presumably as it is turn 11 it is not impossible to work out what the score would have been had had a legal move been made? (Probably best to do so before the final 'desertification' kicks in).
Then it is up to the organiser to decide how to go from there. |
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Payton3434
Joined: 28 Dec 06 Posts: 690
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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I would say if its possible to figure out what the score would have been if the turn would have been done legally, I can take the scores down for the tournament |
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Payton3434
Joined: 28 Dec 06 Posts: 690
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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looking at the score as it is now, If he takes Kanga bribe he wins and Gishe gets 2nd, if he takes either of the other 2 bribes Gishe will win with Kanga getting 2nd |
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Kanga
Joined: 27 Oct 05 Posts: 1503
Location: Moe, Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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It's a contentious area, adjusting scores (although less so in the case of a bug).
Santiago leads itself to serious kingmaking options. Dobinator in this game in effect chooses who wins (he finishes in a better position if he takes my bribe and lets me win, but there's nothing stopping him taking the other bribes if for some reason he doesn't want me to win).
But at least the bribes in this game are legitimate offers. Any player can offer an "illegitimate" - for want of a better word - bribe in the last round changing the result. Of course it's unethical to do so in normal circumstances, but in tournament play its quite possible to actually care who finishes ahead of you, as it may affect your final ranking. Are we obliged to play the games as individual games, or is it acceptable to take into account the current standings? |
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Kanga
Joined: 27 Oct 05 Posts: 1503
Location: Moe, Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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For what it's worth, I think we should be encouaraged / obliged (not quite sure how) to play the games individually, otherwise it opens up a HUGE can of worms. For example, I could stall on the last round in all my games so that I can see how other games finish before deciding who I try to make win / lose.
Or, you might have the scenario where 2 or 3 players are all trying to make different players win to suit themselves.
Either way, it makes a mockery of playing a 9 or 11 round game to have it all decided on a whim.
It's my pet hate about Santiago, espeically online. Face to face, we simply wouldn't allow it. |
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Payton3434
Joined: 28 Dec 06 Posts: 690
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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I Agree, the best decision for him is to take your bribe so that he finishes in 3rd instead of 4th, This is the only way he can better his position in the tourney!! |
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Dobinator
Joined: 18 Jul 07 Posts: 383
Location: North Carolina, USA
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Here's how I think the game should come out...
Code: |
Green Gray Black White
Dobinator Kanga gische Mercutio
Beans A1* 3x5=15 4x5=20
Peppers D1 2x1=2
Beans E1 2x1=2
Potatoes C2 2x6=12 3x6=18 7x6=42
Bananas E2 2x1=1
Peppers F2 2x1=2
Beans G2 2x1=1
Bananas H2 2x4=8 5x4=20
Cane D4 2x4=8 3x4=12
Peppers B5**
Cane C5*** 2x2=4 1x2=2
Bananas G5 2x1=2
Cane H5 2x1=2
Potatoes C6 3x1=3
Peppers E6 1*2=2 2*2=2
Cane G6****
Crops 42 52 48 38
Cash 10 12 13 9
Total 52 64 61 47
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*assumes Dobinator takes 6 bribe to place canal at spot 21 rather than paying 4
**assumes B5 loses one token to go to neutral
***assumes gische plays extra canal at spot 9 and C6 loses one token
****assumes G6 loses a token to go neutral
With regard to the kingmaking thing - I would have acted to better my own placement without regard to which of my opponents won. I don't know either Kanga or gische, but I would not play favorites regardless. I don't have any idea how this game would affect my feeble position in the overall tournament standings, and I would never do that kind of meta-gaming anyway.
I screwed up, and the above is how I think it should have been. My apologies to all affected. |
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Kanga
Joined: 27 Oct 05 Posts: 1503
Location: Moe, Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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I wasn't suggesting that Dobinator might be interested in kingmaking, but more that he has the option of doing so.
If you've added up the scores correctly Dobinator then I could have offered more. I added them up so that with a bribe of 6, it would let me win by 1 gold. I obviously chose 6 to make it as likely as I could you would choose that field. Earlier in the game I'd have settled for 4 as you gain a lot from it too. |
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Payton3434
Joined: 28 Dec 06 Posts: 690
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Green Gray Black White
Dobinator Kanga gische Mercutio
Beans A1* 3x5=15 4x5=20
Peppers D1 2x1=2
Beans E1 2x1=2
Potatoes C2 2x7=14 3x7=21 7x7=49
Bananas E2 2x1=2
Peppers F2 2x1=2
Beans G2 2x1=2
Bananas H2 2x4=8 5x4=20
Cane D4 2x4=8 3x4=12
Peppers B5**
Cane C5*** 2x2=4 1x2=2
Bananas G5 2x1=2
Cane H5 2x1=2
Potatoes C6 3x1=3
Peppers E6 1*2=2
Cane G6****
Crops 44 55 53 36
Cash 10 12 13 9
Total 54 67 66 47
I checked the math and Dobinator had a few 2*1=1 - The Potatoes had 7 crops not 6 and e6 would go neutral
Kanga, Gishe, Dobinator, Mercuito
Please check this, if everyone agrees that will be the final standings in this game!
thank you
Jeff |
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Dobinator
Joined: 18 Jul 07 Posts: 383
Location: North Carolina, USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Looks good to me. Sorry again for the trouble. |
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Kanga
Joined: 27 Oct 05 Posts: 1503
Location: Moe, Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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That's what I got. |
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gische
Joined: 12 Oct 05 Posts: 186
Location: San Carlos, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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I am too lazy to redo the math, so I will accept that. Nice game. |
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Payton3434
Joined: 28 Dec 06 Posts: 690
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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ok, I will put that result for the tournament, you might as well finish it now
thank you
Jeff |
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