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| Should I run 3 player tournaments in a League format? |
| Yes |
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48% |
[ 18 ] |
| No, stay with the stand alone tournament |
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24% |
[ 9 ] |
| whatever, just keep running something |
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27% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 37 |
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NoMoreCheese
Joined: 05 Jan 08
Posts: 230
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| I'll take a run at the bottom spot |
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rico44
Joined: 18 Apr 08
Posts: 130
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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i'm in.
It's interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on a 3 player league. Alhough it's been said there is sometimes king-making involved when more than 2 players are involved, would that not happen less in a league environment where you tend to play with similar people each game?
Also, would those players not get a bad reputation, and get targeted themselves more frequently than other players?
So there are good arguments for staying with a tourney, but of course what the league gives you is a ranking, or at least a seeding for future tournaments. Without going completey to a league format or staying with a tournament format, you could have some ranked events for the hardcore players and more informal, casual, unranked events for the less serious Hacienda players. Just some thoughts...
Personally, I like to play fairly friendly and relaxed, but sometimes I do enjoy the competition. Some people tend to be more one category than the other of course, excepting the few brilliant amongst us who don't have to play too serious and still come out near the top.  |
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Wastl
Joined: 25 Jul 04
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm in. |
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smlait
Joined: 16 Jul 06
Posts: 392
Location: alberta, canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll play. |
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Rebelslayer
Joined: 17 Jan 06
Posts: 298
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| t_o_m9 wrote: | | I'll play, but with more than 2 players in the tournie, it leaves it open for too much kingmaking or bad moves to effect another player in the standings. I multiplayer games I already see times when I'm targeted and taken out the in the first couple of rounds. |
Its true this happens Tom, but far less in 3p than you would think. In multiple tournaments I have felt hammered early in exactly 1 game ... the one you won in the recent small tourney. A couple of less than ideal moves have been made in other games, but no other blatant "picking on".
As long as everyone spends the majority of their time looking out for their own game ... and MAXIMISING their score ... NOT minimising another players score or affecting the eventual winner if they are definitely coming third (in this situation I feel the default moves for a player should be whatever maximises their score, not minimises someone elses, and DEFINITELY not just ... I've lost therefore I will buy out the animals move) then there is little problem.
In the 3p finals the issue of interference and kingmaking have been a far bigger problem! So far, every final I have been in players have chosen not to do something which in the end would have been unethical to further themselves in the overall tournament (after all its unlikely that the player coming third couldn't "gift" the player coming second a water in the right spot to change to outcome of a game, tie it up at 1 each and force a decider).
Long post to say overalldon't worry so much about it! |
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Dobinator
Joined: 18 Jul 07
Posts: 383
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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All good points, Rebelslayer, and generally the policy I'd follow. But if, say, somebody water-blocks me into third place, and I have a chance to get back at them somehow, I'm probably going to take that chance even if I have a lower third place score as a result. I don't play as an algorithm, I play as a person.
My bigger concern about making this a 3-player league is the map selection - I already don't really like playing three simultaneous identical games in the two player league, and to make the maps/variants balance out in 3 player, that could potentially be as bad or worse. |
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Rebelslayer
Joined: 17 Jan 06
Posts: 298
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Yes Dobnator ... what goes around comes around ... by all means block them back ... but usually you wont have to as the relative cost of them blocking you will allow the uninvolved third player to win!
In furtherance ... if you are still in the hunt for the win and you have a choice of 2 markets to get, 1 of which will block one of your opponents from getting to that market, or if you have the chance to play a bigger water that will block one of you opponents from getting to a market without giving the third direct points, then by all means do that as well. |
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Rebelslayer
Joined: 17 Jan 06
Posts: 298
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe a code of conduct for tournament games would help new players to not step on toes? |
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lindalait
Joined: 01 Aug 06
Posts: 229
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| me too please! |
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kekeweb
Joined: 31 Dec 07
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Count me in |
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gische
Joined: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 186
Location: San Carlos, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| In. |
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Kanga
Joined: 27 Oct 05
Posts: 1503
Location: Moe, Victoria, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Dobinator wrote: |
My bigger concern about making this a 3-player league is the map selection - I already don't really like playing three simultaneous identical games in the two player league, and to make the maps/variants balance out in 3 player, that could potentially be as bad or worse. |
If this was run as a league format, then the 3 player tournaments wuold be like the old ones, where each player plays a V0, V1, V1&2 and V2 game. All V0 games would be on the same map etc, so that each player plays each variant and each map once only.
Also, in terms of the kingmaking, I've almost never seen it used blatantly in 3 player. The reason for that is that blocking one player is usually hurting you as much, and the third player gets a big advantage. I can't recall too many (successful, at least) attempts to sabotage me.
If I am playing a game against a strong and a weaker opponent, I *will* watch closely what my stronger opponent is doing and it will influence my moves but I'll always make my moves based on what is best for me, not what is worst for the stronger player. As long as that is the guide, then there's no problems. |
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Kanga
Joined: 27 Oct 05
Posts: 1503
Location: Moe, Victoria, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| bump this up again. I think it's 24 players signed up. |
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Rebelslayer
Joined: 17 Jan 06
Posts: 298
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Kanga wrote: |
If I am playing a game against a strong and a weaker opponent, I *will* watch closely what my stronger opponent is doing and it will influence my moves but I'll always make my moves based on what is best for me, not what is worst for the stronger player. As long as that is the guide, then there's no problems. |
Stronger opponents Kanga ... do you have to look over your shoulder often then?  |
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mongo
Joined: 12 Mar 06
Posts: 39
Location: Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Please sign me up. |
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