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steve von laudicina
Joined: 28 May 06
Posts: 49
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 Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: 7742 |
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| my bad |
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steve von laudicina
Joined: 28 May 06
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: mistake from game 7777 |
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| refer to my problem in game 7777 |
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craw-daddy
Joined: 09 Feb 06
Posts: 59
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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That's the breaks I think. The vagueries of the tower at work, i.e. your men go in, not as many come out and some of your opponent's that were "hiding" in the tower and/or peasants come out so that you lose.
Unless you can demonstrate that there's an error...
This is just how the game works with the randomness of the tower. |
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steve von laudicina
Joined: 28 May 06
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: numbers don't lie |
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| did you look at it, it doesn't add up, there wasn't even any peasants to come out and aid. This has really affected my game and I would like that resolved. |
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Golux13
Joined: 14 Jul 05
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Unless they have changed the algorithm, the tower works as follows:
1. Armies going into the tower in a given battle have a 30% chance of getting stuck in the tower.
2. Armies stuck in the tower at the beginning of a battle have a 30% chance of coming out of the tower during that battle.
It is entirely possible that a larger attacking army will lose because most of the units will get stuck in the tower, or because a huge chunk of the defender's previously stuck armies come out. Them's the breaks. |
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craw-daddy
Joined: 09 Feb 06
Posts: 59
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | moved 8 armies from Osnabrück into Erzbm. Köln, occupied by deso82's 3 armies aided by peasants
-- 8 of steve von laudicina's attacking armies plus 0 from the cup and 3 of deso82's defending armies plus 1 from the cup go into the tower
-- 6 of steve von laudicina's attacking armies and 7 of deso82's defending armies, aided by 0 peasants, come out of the tower
-- The attack fails: 1 of deso82's defending armies remain in the province, and 6 return to the supply along with 6 of steve von laudicina's armies |
What was the state before the attack? You put in eight armies, only six came out. Your opponent put in three (plus one from the cup) and seven came out. This happens. Unless you know that there were less than four armies of your opponent in the tower before the attack, then there is no error. No peasants came out in this case, but if they did they would (usually) aid the defender and be lost first.
You have to keep in mind that there are 62 armies for each color (except the green peasants, for which there are 20).
Thus 62 - (# in supply) - (# on the board) - (# in cup) = the number of armies of that color that are still in the tower. These ones in the tower are free to come out during any attack.
Right now as I write this (before winter revolts are resolved in year one) you (black) have 29 armies on the board, 29 in supply, and none in the cup. Thus you have 62- 29 - 29 - 9 = 4 armies in the tower.
So I'm still not sure what the trouble seems to be. Armies go in the tower, some of those that you chucked in come out, some stay in, some that were in the tower before this particular attack come out. This is an integral part of the game, and is something that you must anticipate happening sometimes.
If you play the game in Real Life(tm), this is done by really chucking the armies in a tower and seeing what comes out. As Golux13 points out, this is done with the probabilities given above that have been chosen to model the situation from the game. |
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freduk
Joined: 18 Jan 06
Posts: 433
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Given that I don't have a life, I've sat down and worked out what I think was the state of the tower before your battle. As far as I can tell (and it's always possible that I've miscalculated. No, really) you had 7 armies in the tower, and deso82 had 1 in the cup and 9 in the tower.
You put 8 armies in, giving a potential army of 15. He added 3 to the 1 already in the cup, giving a potential army of 13.
As luck would have it, 6 of your 15 came out, and 7 of his 13 came out.
I can see nothing wrong here. You have been a little unlucky, but I've seen (and been) worse. |
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Golux13
Joined: 14 Jul 05
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Technically, each player has only 61 available armies. In the live game, one army cube is used to mark the grain track, and I believe this implementation mirrors that. This can be an important distinction when calculating odds. |
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steve von laudicina
Joined: 28 May 06
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: odds |
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| whatever, because of the reiculously uneven odds that went against me, it probably cost me the game, for it would have given me an extra 6 points to end the first season, but as you said, them are the breaks. I guess I can get one good thing out of this, and that is that I now know how to calculate my odds before I attack not that it would have normally mattered, but maybe something like this had to happen for me now I can calculate them for myself. I am brand new to this game, and I think that overall for a beginner like myself, I think I'm doing pretty well. I just got done with my first game and I beat someone who is a veteran 40% winner. |
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freduk
Joined: 18 Jan 06
Posts: 433
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Steve,
Having re-read your original complaint, I think you are confusing the number of armies in the cup with the number of armies in the tower. An easy mistake to make if you haven't seen the real life game and how the tower works.
Hopefully we have been able to clear this up for you and you can enjoy many more games on this site. |
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craw-daddy
Joined: 09 Feb 06
Posts: 59
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:29 am Post subject: Re: odds |
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| Golux13 wrote: | | Technically, each player has only 61 available armies. In the live game, one army cube is used to mark the grain track, and I believe this implementation mirrors that. This can be an important distinction when calculating odds. |
Right, I forgot about that. Thanks for pointing it out!  |
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